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	<title>Comments on: SEO Product Management</title>
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	<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/</link>
	<description>Software product success.</description>
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		<title>By: SEO Product Management &#124; Rob Grady</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-537215</link>
		<dc:creator>SEO Product Management &#124; Rob Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-537215</guid>
		<description>[...] Product Management  Another great post from Tyner Blain, this time on SEO Product Management. While many consider SEO to be some variant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Product Management  Another great post from Tyner Blain, this time on SEO Product Management. While many consider SEO to be some variant [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536707</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536707</guid>
		<description>On using web analytics to measure all marketing channels, SEO has pushed marketing budgets towards web-only approaches, because only SEO and web-based communications can be measured, aka prove their ROI. This has led to a reduction in spending across many channels. Designing measurement is not just about measuring the easy stuff, or designing metrics. You need to design your entire decision support system from sensors to fusion to decision.

The point here is that all communications channels carrying product communications are &quot;in offer.&quot; 

As for keywords, dealing with translation forces you to deal with translation memory, and some notions around terminology and language planning. These decisions follow ontology or concept capture. These decisions are pre-UML, prior to application design type issues. They link to things like the mission statement. This terminology provides a starting place for the development of keyword inventories. It also implies that marketing can start their efforts very early and in tandem with development, instead of being a trailing process that begins after the code is thrown over the wall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On using web analytics to measure all marketing channels, SEO has pushed marketing budgets towards web-only approaches, because only SEO and web-based communications can be measured, aka prove their ROI. This has led to a reduction in spending across many channels. Designing measurement is not just about measuring the easy stuff, or designing metrics. You need to design your entire decision support system from sensors to fusion to decision.</p>
<p>The point here is that all communications channels carrying product communications are &#8220;in offer.&#8221; </p>
<p>As for keywords, dealing with translation forces you to deal with translation memory, and some notions around terminology and language planning. These decisions follow ontology or concept capture. These decisions are pre-UML, prior to application design type issues. They link to things like the mission statement. This terminology provides a starting place for the development of keyword inventories. It also implies that marketing can start their efforts very early and in tandem with development, instead of being a trailing process that begins after the code is thrown over the wall.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536661</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536661</guid>
		<description>Stephanie  (&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/stephanietilton&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@StephanieTilton&lt;/a&gt; on twitter), you (and Brent, but you were first) get the latest &quot;wish I wrote that&quot; award from me.

As product managers, it is critical that we focus on market problems, not their solutions.  You addressed that brilliantly in the SEO context - with a focus on the keywords that help us attract people who are looking to solve the problems we care about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie  (<a href="http://twitter.com/stephanietilton" rel="nofollow">@StephanieTilton</a> on twitter), you (and Brent, but you were first) get the latest &#8220;wish I wrote that&#8221; award from me.</p>
<p>As product managers, it is critical that we focus on market problems, not their solutions.  You addressed that brilliantly in the SEO context &#8211; with a focus on the keywords that help us attract people who are looking to solve the problems we care about.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536653</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536653</guid>
		<description>Hey, Thanks, Brent (&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/SmokeJumper/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@smokejumper&lt;/a&gt; on twitter)!

Great point about how SEO is not just a &quot;get traffic&quot; tool, but also a component of engagement with your customers.  You can fret over positioning, but as you point out - there&#039;s an opportunity to leverage SEO as a &quot;channel&quot; for folks to discover your products, in the context of that positioning.

You also really touched on a key element from a product management perspective (as did Stephanie) - keywords are not just phrases that describe your products.  There are also keywords / phrases that describe the problems that prospective customers can address with your products.  Understanding those keywords is yet another avenue of understanding the problem space you&#039;re addressing with your products.

Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Thanks, Brent (<a href="http://twitter.com/SmokeJumper/" rel="nofollow">@smokejumper</a> on twitter)!</p>
<p>Great point about how SEO is not just a &#8220;get traffic&#8221; tool, but also a component of engagement with your customers.  You can fret over positioning, but as you point out &#8211; there&#8217;s an opportunity to leverage SEO as a &#8220;channel&#8221; for folks to discover your products, in the context of that positioning.</p>
<p>You also really touched on a key element from a product management perspective (as did Stephanie) &#8211; keywords are not just phrases that describe your products.  There are also keywords / phrases that describe the problems that prospective customers can address with your products.  Understanding those keywords is yet another avenue of understanding the problem space you&#8217;re addressing with your products.</p>
<p>Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Harrison</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536564</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536564</guid>
		<description>Tyner:

Great post.  I like your systematic and practical approach.  It often amazes me to see the great conflict between brand and product managers who are so concerned about positioning and the word of key product attributes and SEO analysts (often me:)) who try to educate them that the greatest positioning in the word is not worth much if your prospect can&#039;t find you.

Further, having a deep understanding of the market for search terms can provide a valuable source of market research for future development.

I look forward to following more of your posts.

Sincerely,
Brent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyner:</p>
<p>Great post.  I like your systematic and practical approach.  It often amazes me to see the great conflict between brand and product managers who are so concerned about positioning and the word of key product attributes and SEO analysts (often me:)) who try to educate them that the greatest positioning in the word is not worth much if your prospect can&#8217;t find you.</p>
<p>Further, having a deep understanding of the market for search terms can provide a valuable source of market research for future development.</p>
<p>I look forward to following more of your posts.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Brent</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie Tilton</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536440</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536440</guid>
		<description>Whoops! Only other option is to point folks to this main page:http://www.techtarget.com/html/faas_res_research.htm 

The report is the 2nd one listed (unfortunate that TechTarget doesn&#039;t make this easier to share).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops! Only other option is to point folks to this main page:http://www.techtarget.com/html/faas_res_research.htm </p>
<p>The report is the 2nd one listed (unfortunate that TechTarget doesn&#8217;t make this easier to share).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536428</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536428</guid>
		<description>Hey thanks, Stephanie (&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/StephanieTilton&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@StephanieTilton&lt;/a&gt; on twitter).  I&#039;ll reply substantively soon, but for now, can I just call out the chuckle on the URL you included - check out the end of it :).  I downloaded the pdf, will check it out - thanks for the lead!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey thanks, Stephanie (<a href="http://twitter.com/StephanieTilton" rel="nofollow">@StephanieTilton</a> on twitter).  I&#8217;ll reply substantively soon, but for now, can I just call out the chuckle on the URL you included &#8211; check out the end of it :).  I downloaded the pdf, will check it out &#8211; thanks for the lead!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie Tilton</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536409</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536409</guid>
		<description>Scott,
Like Jim, I agree that you&#039;ve done a great job taking on an overlooked issue. It amazes me that product marketing doesn&#039;t get more involved in making sure that all of its carefully crafted content is easily found by prospects. In fact, I would say that&#039;s an important point to add to this discussion -- you need to provide compelling content (and plenty of it) to keep B2B prospects coming to your site. 

I would also argue that there&#039;s just as great an opportunity to draw prospects to your site during the initial &quot;identify a need&quot; stage. This is where companies can offer thought leadership articles, papers, blog posts, etc that convince prospects of the pressing need to address their issues. In fact, according to MarketingSherpa, prospects search on terms related to their problems far more often than they search on terms related to a solution so it&#039;s a prime opportunity to connect with prospects early. The key, of course, is to find out what keywords prospects are searching on. IT marketers should check out a chart in the &quot;The Google/TechTarget Research Project: How IT Pros Search Online During the Purchase Process&quot; report (http://pro22.sgizmo.com/survey.php?SURVEY=68WKQZCH9W8K18GR1D65O74DMJPH48-82268-51564656&amp;pswsgt=1243872123&amp;sg_g=d0f148aff624e0d1780d834b15b5d0d8&amp;_csg=34BLbo27wDbL2&amp;notice=DO-NOT-DISTRIBUTE-THIS-LINK); it spells out what types of searches IT buyers conduct at different phases of the buying cycle. 

Thanks for the great post!

Best,
Stephanie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,<br />
Like Jim, I agree that you&#8217;ve done a great job taking on an overlooked issue. It amazes me that product marketing doesn&#8217;t get more involved in making sure that all of its carefully crafted content is easily found by prospects. In fact, I would say that&#8217;s an important point to add to this discussion &#8212; you need to provide compelling content (and plenty of it) to keep B2B prospects coming to your site. </p>
<p>I would also argue that there&#8217;s just as great an opportunity to draw prospects to your site during the initial &#8220;identify a need&#8221; stage. This is where companies can offer thought leadership articles, papers, blog posts, etc that convince prospects of the pressing need to address their issues. In fact, according to MarketingSherpa, prospects search on terms related to their problems far more often than they search on terms related to a solution so it&#8217;s a prime opportunity to connect with prospects early. The key, of course, is to find out what keywords prospects are searching on. IT marketers should check out a chart in the &#8220;The Google/TechTarget Research Project: How IT Pros Search Online During the Purchase Process&#8221; report (<a href="http://pro22.sgizmo.com/survey.php?SURVEY=68WKQZCH9W8K18GR1D65O74DMJPH48-82268-51564656&amp;pswsgt=1243872123&amp;sg_g=d0f148aff624e0d1780d834b15b5d0d8&amp;_csg=34BLbo27wDbL2&amp;notice=DO-NOT-DISTRIBUTE-THIS-LINK" rel="nofollow">http://pro22.sgizmo.com/survey.php?SURVEY=68WKQZCH9W8K18GR1D65O74DMJPH48-82268-51564656&amp;pswsgt=1243872123&amp;sg_g=d0f148aff624e0d1780d834b15b5d0d8&amp;_csg=34BLbo27wDbL2&amp;notice=DO-NOT-DISTRIBUTE-THIS-LINK</a>); it spells out what types of searches IT buyers conduct at different phases of the buying cycle. </p>
<p>Thanks for the great post!</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Stephanie</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536367</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536367</guid>
		<description>Thanks, David (&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/davidwlocke&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@davidwlocke&lt;/a&gt; on twitter)!

I completely agree that conversion (into a sale) is not the only metric you should track, and B2B interactions really highlight that. 

For buying processes that are more transient (or transactional) in nature, conversion is still the key metric.  When you have a buying process that involves multiple stages of interaction, I agree that expecting a purchase on each visit is not the right expectation - even for B2C interactions, like buying a car.  In those situations, defining additional goals (beyond conversion) is also important.  Conversion is still important, although instead of tracking conversion-per-visit, you will get more insight from looking at conversion-per-visitor - combined with visits per conversion.

As to &quot;SEO-ing&quot; non-website channels, I don&#039;t think that makes sense.  Measuring, monitoring, and reporting the effectiveness of other &quot;get more people to the site&quot; marketing channels is certainly important.  But SEO (by definition) is specifically focused on increasing the effectiveness of traffic generated &lt;i&gt;from search engines&lt;/i&gt;.

Definitely a lot of analysis of user behavior that can be done with web applications (SaaS or otherwise), as well as any application.  Getting insights from &quot;measured behavior&quot; is certainly important - just broader in scope than &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; article, which I tried to focus solely on SEO.

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, David (<a href="http://twitter.com/davidwlocke" rel="nofollow">@davidwlocke</a> on twitter)!</p>
<p>I completely agree that conversion (into a sale) is not the only metric you should track, and B2B interactions really highlight that. </p>
<p>For buying processes that are more transient (or transactional) in nature, conversion is still the key metric.  When you have a buying process that involves multiple stages of interaction, I agree that expecting a purchase on each visit is not the right expectation &#8211; even for B2C interactions, like buying a car.  In those situations, defining additional goals (beyond conversion) is also important.  Conversion is still important, although instead of tracking conversion-per-visit, you will get more insight from looking at conversion-per-visitor &#8211; combined with visits per conversion.</p>
<p>As to &#8220;SEO-ing&#8221; non-website channels, I don&#8217;t think that makes sense.  Measuring, monitoring, and reporting the effectiveness of other &#8220;get more people to the site&#8221; marketing channels is certainly important.  But SEO (by definition) is specifically focused on increasing the effectiveness of traffic generated <i>from search engines</i>.</p>
<p>Definitely a lot of analysis of user behavior that can be done with web applications (SaaS or otherwise), as well as any application.  Getting insights from &#8220;measured behavior&#8221; is certainly important &#8211; just broader in scope than <i>this</i> article, which I tried to focus solely on SEO.</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536317</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536317</guid>
		<description>The idea that you must close those that show up is great advice in a B2C environment. In a B2B environment, a first visit will not get you a close. A technical evangelism effort will never get a close. In these non-B2C situations, the need is to sell micro-conversions, and get sticky.

Also be aware that you can SEO, all channels not just your website. It takes a server and a website to SEO your non-internet channels, but it can be done. Typically, it isn&#039;t done, so marketing shifts to being internet facing only. If I give you a t-shirt, I&#039;ll use the internet to know if the t-shirt worked. If i give you a print brochure, same deal. 

If you are a SaaS application, the application&#039;s pages can likewise be analyzed via web analytics.  

Great article! Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that you must close those that show up is great advice in a B2C environment. In a B2B environment, a first visit will not get you a close. A technical evangelism effort will never get a close. In these non-B2C situations, the need is to sell micro-conversions, and get sticky.</p>
<p>Also be aware that you can SEO, all channels not just your website. It takes a server and a website to SEO your non-internet channels, but it can be done. Typically, it isn&#8217;t done, so marketing shifts to being internet facing only. If I give you a t-shirt, I&#8217;ll use the internet to know if the t-shirt worked. If i give you a print brochure, same deal. </p>
<p>If you are a SaaS application, the application&#8217;s pages can likewise be analyzed via web analytics.  </p>
<p>Great article! Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536100</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536100</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jim (&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/jim_holland&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Jim_Holland&lt;/a&gt; on twitter)!  Hopefully I went into the right level of detail - enough to be useful (to product managers), without being too deep of a dive.  Anyone already steeped in SEO lore would really have to get to the end of the article to find value.  Definitely a tip-of-the-iceberg posting.  If there seems to be a lot of interest of readers here, I can go into some more depth.

[teaser]Things like an on-brand ratio, competitive analysis and SEO, multivariate testing, etc. [/teaser]

Let me know if that&#039;s good content for y&#039;all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jim (<a href="http://twitter.com/jim_holland" rel="nofollow">@Jim_Holland</a> on twitter)!  Hopefully I went into the right level of detail &#8211; enough to be useful (to product managers), without being too deep of a dive.  Anyone already steeped in SEO lore would really have to get to the end of the article to find value.  Definitely a tip-of-the-iceberg posting.  If there seems to be a lot of interest of readers here, I can go into some more depth.</p>
<p>[teaser]Things like an on-brand ratio, competitive analysis and SEO, multivariate testing, etc. [/teaser]</p>
<p>Let me know if that&#8217;s good content for y&#8217;all.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Holland</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/11/10/seo-product-management/comment-page-1/#comment-536095</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1119#comment-536095</guid>
		<description>Scott - great content and observations into an area that most product management organizations fail to contribute. How many times have you heard, &quot;I&#039;ve done my job and used market validated input to create a great product. It&#039;s up to Product Marketing to provide killer positioning and Market to do it&#039;s outbound stuff.&quot;

Thanks for the wakeup call and to bring to product management&#039;s attention that they hold unique insight to what will drive success as the product is launched and marketed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott &#8211; great content and observations into an area that most product management organizations fail to contribute. How many times have you heard, &#8220;I&#8217;ve done my job and used market validated input to create a great product. It&#8217;s up to Product Marketing to provide killer positioning and Market to do it&#8217;s outbound stuff.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for the wakeup call and to bring to product management&#8217;s attention that they hold unique insight to what will drive success as the product is launched and marketed.</p>
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