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	<title>Comments on: Concise Requirements</title>
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	<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/</link>
	<description>Software product success.</description>
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		<title>By: Concise Requirements &#124; Tyner Blain :: ProductMarketing.com</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-653546</link>
		<dc:creator>Concise Requirements &#124; Tyner Blain :: ProductMarketing.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-653546</guid>
		<description>[...] more in Concise Requirements &#124; Tyner Blain.   Categories : [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more in Concise Requirements | Tyner Blain.   Categories : [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Newbert</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575227</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Newbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575227</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @indianaero:via @sehlhorst: Concise Requirements http://bit.ly/pZRj8 &lt;-- refocus on the simple traits of a well written requirement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @indianaero:via @sehlhorst: Concise Requirements <a href="http://bit.ly/pZRj8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/pZRj8</a> &lt;&#8211; refocus on the simple traits of a well written requirement</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: PR - Product Mgmt.</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575228</link>
		<dc:creator>PR - Product Mgmt.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 00:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575228</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Concise Requirements http://bit.ly/teIgi #postrank #prod_mgmt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Concise Requirements <a href="http://bit.ly/teIgi" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/teIgi</a> #postrank #prod_mgmt</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575229</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575229</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @Jim_Holland: One key rule for #prodmgmt is; &quot;Concise Requirements&quot; by @sehlhorst  http://bit.ly/XFJD3 #agile #leadership&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @Jim_Holland: One key rule for #prodmgmt is; &quot;Concise Requirements&quot; by @sehlhorst  <a href="http://bit.ly/XFJD3" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/XFJD3</a> #agile #leadership</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: David Hobbs</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575230</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575230</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;&quot;You want your requirements document to read like the lines, not the points&quot; --&gt; &quot;Concise Requirements&quot; by @sehlhorst http://bit.ly/XFJD3&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">&#8220;You want your requirements document to read like the lines, not the points&#8221; &#8211;&gt; &#8220;Concise Requirements&#8221; by @sehlhorst <a href="http://bit.ly/XFJD3" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/XFJD3</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Holland</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575231</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575231</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;One key rule for #prodmgmt is; &quot;Concise Requirements&quot; by @sehlhorst  http://bit.ly/XFJD3 #agile #leadership&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">One key rule for #prodmgmt is; &quot;Concise Requirements&quot; by @sehlhorst  <a href="http://bit.ly/XFJD3" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/XFJD3</a> #agile #leadership</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Ellen Gottesdiener</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513569</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Gottesdiener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513569</guid>
		<description>Great discussion thread, all!

now, once we do have the &#039;big view&#039; -- just enough to be sure we&#039;re solving the right problem, have a vision and business case, market understanding etc. --  i want to get back to a key point in Scott&#039;s article case around &#039;concise requirements&#039;.

for me in working with agile teams, a key is having those acceptance criteria. so yea, we want to be concise, but also unambiguous (clear) with each of these small, tamped down requirements. the acceptance criteria help us do that. 

~ ellen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion thread, all!</p>
<p>now, once we do have the &#8216;big view&#8217; &#8212; just enough to be sure we&#8217;re solving the right problem, have a vision and business case, market understanding etc. &#8212;  i want to get back to a key point in Scott&#8217;s article case around &#8216;concise requirements&#8217;.</p>
<p>for me in working with agile teams, a key is having those acceptance criteria. so yea, we want to be concise, but also unambiguous (clear) with each of these small, tamped down requirements. the acceptance criteria help us do that. </p>
<p>~ ellen</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Rogers</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513549</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513549</guid>
		<description>Well said Roger! And, an excellent lesson. Perhaps this is why Toyota asks why five times and not infinite times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Roger! And, an excellent lesson. Perhaps this is why Toyota asks why five times and not infinite times.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575232</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575232</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Replied to @stewartrogers in the discussion on problem statements and requirements at Tyner Blain. http://tr.im/w7qa #prodmgmt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Replied to @stewartrogers in the discussion on problem statements and requirements at Tyner Blain. <a href="http://tr.im/w7qa" rel="nofollow">http://tr.im/w7qa</a> #prodmgmt</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513497</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513497</guid>
		<description>Stewart, I think where we have a disconnect is that you&#039;re implying we have to address the &quot;absolute&quot; root problem.  I maintain that there is a chain of problems, and that we must as product managers intentionally stop short of the root and select a problem further down the chain.

I wrote about the issue of &lt;a href=&quot;http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/08/when-to-stop-asking-why.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;problem chains&lt;/a&gt; a few years ago.  We will never comprehensively address a core need of human beings (e.g. happiness). 

What we do as product managers is identify problems further down the chain that are obstacles to satisfaction of core needs.  We strive to find problems that are as high up the chain as possible, but only insofar as we can confidently promise to solve them.  Otherwise, all of our problem statements and requirements would focus on health, sex, safety, and social acceptance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stewart, I think where we have a disconnect is that you&#8217;re implying we have to address the &#8220;absolute&#8221; root problem.  I maintain that there is a chain of problems, and that we must as product managers intentionally stop short of the root and select a problem further down the chain.</p>
<p>I wrote about the issue of <a href="http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/08/when-to-stop-asking-why.html" rel="nofollow">problem chains</a> a few years ago.  We will never comprehensively address a core need of human beings (e.g. happiness). </p>
<p>What we do as product managers is identify problems further down the chain that are obstacles to satisfaction of core needs.  We strive to find problems that are as high up the chain as possible, but only insofar as we can confidently promise to solve them.  Otherwise, all of our problem statements and requirements would focus on health, sex, safety, and social acceptance.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Schnack</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575233</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Schnack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575233</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Cheers for focus on &quot;so that...&quot; RT @sehlhorst: more debate about strategic/market reqs @ on Tyner Blain http://bit.ly/pZRj8 #prodmgmt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Cheers for focus on &quot;so that&#8230;&quot; RT @sehlhorst: more debate about strategic/market reqs @ on Tyner Blain <a href="http://bit.ly/pZRj8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/pZRj8</a> #prodmgmt</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Schnack</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575234</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Schnack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575234</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Cheers for focus on &quot;so that...&quot; RT @sehlhorst: more debate about strategic/market reqs @ on Tyner Blain http://bit.ly/pZRj8 #prodmgmt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Cheers for focus on &#8220;so that&#8230;&#8221; RT @sehlhorst: more debate about strategic/market reqs @ on Tyner Blain <a href="http://bit.ly/pZRj8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/pZRj8</a> #prodmgmt</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-575235</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-575235</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;more debate about strategic/market requirements on Tyner Blain http://bit.ly/pZRj8 #prodmgmt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">more debate about strategic/market requirements on Tyner Blain <a href="http://bit.ly/pZRj8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/pZRj8</a> #prodmgmt</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513464</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513464</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone very much for the great discussion!

I&#039;ve been thinking about this for a couple days, and I think at the end of the day, 3 is the problem - companies are spending &quot;any money at all&quot; to understand their customers.  But that means &lt;i&gt;the real problem is that our customers need to understand their customers&lt;/i&gt;.  Some of our potential customers will have no solution in place for that problem.  Others will have solutions in place (home grown or purchased).  We have competition that solves this problem.  Our customers have to choose how they want to address this problem - our solution, someone else&#039;s, or their own (or continue to have no solution).

The cost of our solution is probably relevant to our customers and prospects when making purchasing decisions, as would be other elements/attributes of our solution and other solutions.  As part of our market analysis, we should estimate the number of potential customers at given price points.  Included in developing that estimate is an understanding of current costs and associated potential savings (at each price point).  Or a continuous function of &quot;value vs. price&quot; if discrete points don&#039;t make sense.  Depending on how we want to position and penetrate the market, we can pick one or more price points versus that model.

From a business standpoint, we should have a target profitability model - at price point X, we can spend Y to develop the solution, and Z as &#039;cost of sales.&#039;  I&#039;m oversimplifying, but basically, there&#039;s an amount we can spend to create, maintain, and sell our product and meet our corporate profitability objectives.  We may even choose to operate at a loss, for other reasons (like penetrating the market).

From that point, we should be balancing our sales / customer sat / etc versus the model, and our costs versus the model.  Any variance analysis (didn&#039;t sell as much as we thought it would, cost much less than we thought, etc) should drive both an assessment of the model&#039;s accuracy and of our performance in defining the right product, as well as our execution in creating it.

Is there a better strategic framework for driving this analysis than saying the requirements is &quot;25% cost reduction for our customers...&quot;?  Yeah, probably.  We want to say &quot;provide a solution that has X cost for our customers, while yielding Y profit for us.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone very much for the great discussion!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking about this for a couple days, and I think at the end of the day, 3 is the problem &#8211; companies are spending &#8220;any money at all&#8221; to understand their customers.  But that means <i>the real problem is that our customers need to understand their customers</i>.  Some of our potential customers will have no solution in place for that problem.  Others will have solutions in place (home grown or purchased).  We have competition that solves this problem.  Our customers have to choose how they want to address this problem &#8211; our solution, someone else&#8217;s, or their own (or continue to have no solution).</p>
<p>The cost of our solution is probably relevant to our customers and prospects when making purchasing decisions, as would be other elements/attributes of our solution and other solutions.  As part of our market analysis, we should estimate the number of potential customers at given price points.  Included in developing that estimate is an understanding of current costs and associated potential savings (at each price point).  Or a continuous function of &#8220;value vs. price&#8221; if discrete points don&#8217;t make sense.  Depending on how we want to position and penetrate the market, we can pick one or more price points versus that model.</p>
<p>From a business standpoint, we should have a target profitability model &#8211; at price point X, we can spend Y to develop the solution, and Z as &#8216;cost of sales.&#8217;  I&#8217;m oversimplifying, but basically, there&#8217;s an amount we can spend to create, maintain, and sell our product and meet our corporate profitability objectives.  We may even choose to operate at a loss, for other reasons (like penetrating the market).</p>
<p>From that point, we should be balancing our sales / customer sat / etc versus the model, and our costs versus the model.  Any variance analysis (didn&#8217;t sell as much as we thought it would, cost much less than we thought, etc) should drive both an assessment of the model&#8217;s accuracy and of our performance in defining the right product, as well as our execution in creating it.</p>
<p>Is there a better strategic framework for driving this analysis than saying the requirements is &#8220;25% cost reduction for our customers&#8230;&#8221;?  Yeah, probably.  We want to say &#8220;provide a solution that has X cost for our customers, while yielding Y profit for us.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-825205</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-825205</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @sehlhorst: Active conv/debate  w @stewartrogers @rcauvin on problems, prob statements, requirements @Tyner Blain http://bit.ly/pZRj8&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @sehlhorst: Active conv/debate  w @stewartrogers @rcauvin on problems, prob statements, requirements @Tyner Blain <a href="http://bit.ly/pZRj8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/pZRj8</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Rogers</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513135</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513135</guid>
		<description>@Roger: I think we fundamentally disagree on what a problem is. Not to pick specifically on this example, but &quot;it takes more than four minutes for a cashier to process a transaction&quot; is not the root problem. What you have done is written a requirement for A problem but likely not THE problem. And typically what most people do is provide a solution for A problem and not THE problem. This was the point of Seth&#039;s post (http://bit.ly/qRsHT) yesterday. Problem definition and requirement definition have to be two distinct steps and the language of both outputs are different, but they go hand-in-hand and at the end neither can exist without the other.

@Scott: In comment #11, I agree with this, but I also agree with Roger. the 10% is the impact, not the problem. On top of that though, I agree it is very important to understand and communicate the impact for all the reasons you stated in comment #14.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roger: I think we fundamentally disagree on what a problem is. Not to pick specifically on this example, but &#8220;it takes more than four minutes for a cashier to process a transaction&#8221; is not the root problem. What you have done is written a requirement for A problem but likely not THE problem. And typically what most people do is provide a solution for A problem and not THE problem. This was the point of Seth&#8217;s post (<a href="http://bit.ly/qRsHT" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/qRsHT</a>) yesterday. Problem definition and requirement definition have to be two distinct steps and the language of both outputs are different, but they go hand-in-hand and at the end neither can exist without the other.</p>
<p>@Scott: In comment #11, I agree with this, but I also agree with Roger. the 10% is the impact, not the problem. On top of that though, I agree it is very important to understand and communicate the impact for all the reasons you stated in comment #14.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513111</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513111</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, Scott.  We&#039;re even closer than I thought in both our semantics and our substance.

A few observations.

First, there is no disagreement over the idea that we need to quantify the the extent of the problem and the extent to which we are promising to solve it.  Stating &lt;a href=&quot;http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/06/definition-of-requirement.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;least stringent conditions&lt;/a&gt; is a core part of expressing requirements.

Second, I am skeptical that we would want to take on the requirement &quot;reduce the cost [for our customers] of understanding their customers by 25%&quot;.  In our market research and requirements elicitation, we&#039;d want to probe &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; it costs too much to understand customers.  Those reasons might be the problems we&#039;d choose to solve.

Third, there are subtle semantic implications to your quantifying of the problem and the requirement.  Which is really the problem:

1.  Spending 10% of revenue.
2.  Spending more than 7.5% of revenue (knowing that the actual amount is 10%).
3.  Spending revenue (no matter what the amount, but we want to reduce it to the extent feasible).

You seem to be stating that 1 is the problem, and the inverse of 2 is the requirement.  I contend that all three are problems, but that 2 is the problem we are choosing to solve, and the inverse of 2 is the requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, Scott.  We&#8217;re even closer than I thought in both our semantics and our substance.</p>
<p>A few observations.</p>
<p>First, there is no disagreement over the idea that we need to quantify the the extent of the problem and the extent to which we are promising to solve it.  Stating <a href="http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/06/definition-of-requirement.html" rel="nofollow">least stringent conditions</a> is a core part of expressing requirements.</p>
<p>Second, I am skeptical that we would want to take on the requirement &#8220;reduce the cost [for our customers] of understanding their customers by 25%&#8221;.  In our market research and requirements elicitation, we&#8217;d want to probe <i>why</i> it costs too much to understand customers.  Those reasons might be the problems we&#8217;d choose to solve.</p>
<p>Third, there are subtle semantic implications to your quantifying of the problem and the requirement.  Which is really the problem:</p>
<p>1.  Spending 10% of revenue.<br />
2.  Spending more than 7.5% of revenue (knowing that the actual amount is 10%).<br />
3.  Spending revenue (no matter what the amount, but we want to reduce it to the extent feasible).</p>
<p>You seem to be stating that 1 is the problem, and the inverse of 2 is the requirement.  I contend that all three are problems, but that 2 is the problem we are choosing to solve, and the inverse of 2 is the requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513110</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513110</guid>
		<description>@Cauvin,

On &quot;... are use case steps and user interface specifications inherently design, or ... terminology contraditory?&quot;, yes, you can do it that way. I was shocked to find that requirements are theory driven. I wasn&#039;t as shocked to find that integration applications negotiate away meaning, hence the terminology problem. Neither of these two things works in a long-term market adoption situation. Going directly to Saas and dying young will let you engage in those practices. 

On problem, the customer spends time solving the problem, aka engaging in some ritual, but the programmer who doesn&#039;t engage in the problem as a user will solve the problem in their own way, not in the way the user would solve the problem. So much for listening to the customer, or eliciting requirements from the user. Fundamentally, we need to preserve the user&#039;s meanings and rituals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cauvin,</p>
<p>On &#8220;&#8230; are use case steps and user interface specifications inherently design, or &#8230; terminology contraditory?&#8221;, yes, you can do it that way. I was shocked to find that requirements are theory driven. I wasn&#8217;t as shocked to find that integration applications negotiate away meaning, hence the terminology problem. Neither of these two things works in a long-term market adoption situation. Going directly to Saas and dying young will let you engage in those practices. </p>
<p>On problem, the customer spends time solving the problem, aka engaging in some ritual, but the programmer who doesn&#8217;t engage in the problem as a user will solve the problem in their own way, not in the way the user would solve the problem. So much for listening to the customer, or eliciting requirements from the user. Fundamentally, we need to preserve the user&#8217;s meanings and rituals.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513093</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513093</guid>
		<description>@Roger:

Let me try writing it another way - I suspect we agree, and are just &#039;talking past each other&#039;.

There&#039;s a trend among [my target customers in my target market], that they are spending ~10% of their revenue on understanding their relationships with their customers and prospects.  My target customers have an abstract goal of &quot;be more profitable.&quot;  To your point, we aren&#039;t signing up to solve the abstract &quot;be more profitable&quot; problem, because we have a strategic focus as a company on providing solutions &quot;in the CRM space.&quot;

We&#039;ve identified (because we know the domain) that companies spending 10% of revenue on understanding relationships [solving some problem of theirs] have an opportunity to spend much less than 10%.

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Our customer&#039;s problem was &quot;we don&#039;t understand [their] customers.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Our customer&#039;s requirement was &quot;develop an ongoing understanding of [their] customers.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;They chose a solution that cost them 10% of revenue, creating a new problem:&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Our customer&#039;s problem (now) is &quot;understanding our customers is too expensive.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Our problem is &quot;the cost of understanding their customers is too high for our customers.&quot;  Note that our problem &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; their problem.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;We do an analysis of &quot;how much of that problem should we solve?&quot;, and decide (strategically) to solve 25% of it.  That&#039;s a solution we could successfully take to market.  Or so we believe.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Our requirement is &quot;reduce the cost [for our customers] of understanding their customers, by 25%.&quot;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

So we almost entirely agree.  We&#039;re only differing in that I find it to be important to call out the &quot;how much&quot; element - because that is (1) key to our market viability, because it defines how much our product would be worth to our customers, and (2) it defines clearly when we are &quot;done&quot; and ready to go to market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roger:</p>
<p>Let me try writing it another way &#8211; I suspect we agree, and are just &#8216;talking past each other&#8217;.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a trend among [my target customers in my target market], that they are spending ~10% of their revenue on understanding their relationships with their customers and prospects.  My target customers have an abstract goal of &#8220;be more profitable.&#8221;  To your point, we aren&#8217;t signing up to solve the abstract &#8220;be more profitable&#8221; problem, because we have a strategic focus as a company on providing solutions &#8220;in the CRM space.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve identified (because we know the domain) that companies spending 10% of revenue on understanding relationships [solving some problem of theirs] have an opportunity to spend much less than 10%.</p>
<ol>
<li>Our customer&#8217;s problem was &#8220;we don&#8217;t understand [their] customers.&#8221;</li>
<li>Our customer&#8217;s requirement was &#8220;develop an ongoing understanding of [their] customers.&#8221;</li>
<li>They chose a solution that cost them 10% of revenue, creating a new problem:</li>
<li>Our customer&#8217;s problem (now) is &#8220;understanding our customers is too expensive.&#8221;</li>
<li>Our problem is &#8220;the cost of understanding their customers is too high for our customers.&#8221;  Note that our problem <i>is</i> their problem.</li>
<li>We do an analysis of &#8220;how much of that problem should we solve?&#8221;, and decide (strategically) to solve 25% of it.  That&#8217;s a solution we could successfully take to market.  Or so we believe.</li>
<li>Our requirement is &#8220;reduce the cost [for our customers] of understanding their customers, by 25%.&#8221;</li>
</ol>
<p>So we almost entirely agree.  We&#8217;re only differing in that I find it to be important to call out the &#8220;how much&#8221; element &#8211; because that is (1) key to our market viability, because it defines how much our product would be worth to our customers, and (2) it defines clearly when we are &#8220;done&#8221; and ready to go to market.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2009/08/03/concise-requirements/comment-page-1/#comment-513087</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/?p=1010#comment-513087</guid>
		<description>Scott, it appears you and I have some remaining divergence on the relationship between problems and requirements.

You give as an example of a problem statement:

&quot;[T]arget customers in target market] are spending 10% of revenue on [solving some problem of theirs].&quot;

I guess you could characterize the &quot;[problem of theirs]&quot; part as the the primary problem and the effect on revenue as a higher-level problem (a financial context) that results from it.

We have to choose which level of problem we are going to solve.  I doubt we&#039;d want to be accountable for solving the higher-level problem, as some of its causes are likely outside of our control.

From your problem statement, it&#039;s not clear what level of problem you want to solve.  But then your requirement suggests that you have chosen to solve the higher-level revenue problem, not the primary problem that causes it.

Whatever level of problem we choose to solve, in my opinion the requirement is nothing more than the logical inverse of it.  Thus, if you choose &quot;spending 10% or more of revenue&quot; as the problem, then &quot;spending less than 10% of revenue&quot; is the requirement.  Surely the problem has been solved or avoided if the condition that you stated as the problem no longer exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, it appears you and I have some remaining divergence on the relationship between problems and requirements.</p>
<p>You give as an example of a problem statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;[T]arget customers in target market] are spending 10% of revenue on [solving some problem of theirs].&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess you could characterize the &#8220;[problem of theirs]&#8221; part as the the primary problem and the effect on revenue as a higher-level problem (a financial context) that results from it.</p>
<p>We have to choose which level of problem we are going to solve.  I doubt we&#8217;d want to be accountable for solving the higher-level problem, as some of its causes are likely outside of our control.</p>
<p>From your problem statement, it&#8217;s not clear what level of problem you want to solve.  But then your requirement suggests that you have chosen to solve the higher-level revenue problem, not the primary problem that causes it.</p>
<p>Whatever level of problem we choose to solve, in my opinion the requirement is nothing more than the logical inverse of it.  Thus, if you choose &#8220;spending 10% or more of revenue&#8221; as the problem, then &#8220;spending less than 10% of revenue&#8221; is the requirement.  Surely the problem has been solved or avoided if the condition that you stated as the problem no longer exists.</p>
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