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	<title>Comments on: Four Assumptions of the Apocalypse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/</link>
	<description>Software product success.</description>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-54394</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Okay, but I would just be careful about creating the impression that XP or any other form of agile development calls for no up-front requirements.  All of them call for up-front requirements; the differences are a matter of degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, but I would just be careful about creating the impression that XP or any other form of agile development calls for no up-front requirements.  All of them call for up-front requirements; the differences are a matter of degree.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-54390</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Roger,

Thanks for reading and commenting!

In the debate between Beck and Cooper, if I recall correctly, Beck was in favor of days of upfront analysis, in contrast with Cooper who felt like weeks of big upfront design would be required for a large project.  While a couple days isn&#039;t &quot;none&quot;, it is comparatively miniscule.

The challenge is to understand enough of the domain to know which of the handfull of initial requirements is actually the most valuable.  That&#039;s where I tend to like the FDD approach versus XP.  

In keeping with the mining analogy, think of it as a detailed survey in advance of strip mining, to increase the likelihood of finding the most valuable requirements when the digging begins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>Thanks for reading and commenting!</p>
<p>In the debate between Beck and Cooper, if I recall correctly, Beck was in favor of days of upfront analysis, in contrast with Cooper who felt like weeks of big upfront design would be required for a large project.  While a couple days isn&#8217;t &#8220;none&#8221;, it is comparatively miniscule.</p>
<p>The challenge is to understand enough of the domain to know which of the handfull of initial requirements is actually the most valuable.  That&#8217;s where I tend to like the FDD approach versus XP.  </p>
<p>In keeping with the mining analogy, think of it as a detailed survey in advance of strip mining, to increase the likelihood of finding the most valuable requirements when the digging begins.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-54387</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tynerblain.com/blog/2006/07/12/four-assumptions-of-the-apocalypse/#comment-54387</guid>
		<description>A couple of characterizations of Beck&#039;s XP that are open to misinterpretation:

&quot;Beck’s argument is that because customer’s don’t know what they want, &lt;i&gt;we should start building stuff right away&lt;/i&gt; [emphasis added], with the expectation that by seeing tangible results (good or bad), they will have epiphanies about what they really do want.&quot;

While Beck does favor building the system early and often, he doesn&#039;t favor building it &quot;right away&quot;.  A &quot;planning game&quot; and initial set of user stories come first.

&quot;While this approach has strengths, it also has weaknesses.  Those weaknesses are caused by the assumption that the requirements can not be identified up front.&quot;

Beck favors specifying requirements up front, just not to a high level of detail.  His assumption is that noone can know &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of the requirements up front, and that some of the ones you think you know will change.

Your comparison to strip-mining nicely captures things:

&quot;This approach treats requirement extraction as an emergent process, like strip-mining. With each new layer of mining, we unearth a new set of hidden requirements.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of characterizations of Beck&#8217;s XP that are open to misinterpretation:</p>
<p>&#8220;Beck’s argument is that because customer’s don’t know what they want, <i>we should start building stuff right away</i> [emphasis added], with the expectation that by seeing tangible results (good or bad), they will have epiphanies about what they really do want.&#8221;</p>
<p>While Beck does favor building the system early and often, he doesn&#8217;t favor building it &#8220;right away&#8221;.  A &#8220;planning game&#8221; and initial set of user stories come first.</p>
<p>&#8220;While this approach has strengths, it also has weaknesses.  Those weaknesses are caused by the assumption that the requirements can not be identified up front.&#8221;</p>
<p>Beck favors specifying requirements up front, just not to a high level of detail.  His assumption is that noone can know <i>all</i> of the requirements up front, and that some of the ones you think you know will change.</p>
<p>Your comparison to strip-mining nicely captures things:</p>
<p>&#8220;This approach treats requirement extraction as an emergent process, like strip-mining. With each new layer of mining, we unearth a new set of hidden requirements.&#8221;</p>
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